{"id":17536,"date":"2025-03-26T15:05:49","date_gmt":"2025-03-26T15:05:49","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/cassandravoices.com\/?p=17536"},"modified":"2025-03-26T15:05:49","modified_gmt":"2025-03-26T15:05:49","slug":"podcast-patrick-cockburn-on-syria-and-ukraine","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/casswp.eutonom.eu\/index.php\/2025\/03\/26\/podcast-patrick-cockburn-on-syria-and-ukraine\/","title":{"rendered":"Podcast: Patrick Cockburn on Syria and Ukraine"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" style=\"border: none;\" title=\"Embed Player\" src=\"https:\/\/play.libsyn.com\/embed\/episode\/id\/35870860\/height\/192\/theme\/modern\/size\/large\/thumbnail\/yes\/custom-color\/dfdede\/time-start\/00:00:00\/playlist-height\/200\/direction\/backward\/font-color\/0c0c0c\" width=\"100%\" height=\"192\" scrolling=\"no\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><br \/>\n<span style=\"font-size: 16px;\">Are the Eurocrats and their allies most delusional about the topics they profess to find most urgent? Or are they just setting out to delude the rest of us?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>This was Ursula Von Der Leyen <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><a style=\"color: #0000ff;\" href=\"https:\/\/north-africa-middle-east-gulf.ec.europa.eu\/news\/speech-president-von-der-leyen-9th-brussels-conference-syria-2025-03-17_en\">speaking<\/a><\/span> at the 9th Brussels Conference on Syria, on Saint Patrick\u2019s Day last:<\/p>\n<p><em>The agreement between the central authorities and the Kurdish SDF\u2026 is nothing short of historic. As is the signing of a constitutional declaration by interim President al-Sharaa. On the other hand, the attacks on security forces and the violence against civilians in Syria&#8217;s coastal region show that the situation remains fragile\u2026<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>The Syrian authorities&#8217; commitment to bring the perpetrators to justice, to protect minorities, and form an inclusive government \u2013 all of this is vital for reconciliation.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>As these words were being prepared in the run-up to the conference, informed observers of Syria\u2019s situation could see a different picture: targeted sectarian <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><a style=\"color: #0000ff;\" href=\"https:\/\/www.npr.org\/2025\/03\/09\/nx-s1-5322458\/syria-revenge-killings-alawites-latakia\">massacres of Alawites<\/a><\/span>, not just \u201cviolence against civilians\u201d, had begun. To precious little outcry in the West, death squads indifferent to calls for restraint from Damascus were fanning out in coastal Latakia. Far from cohering into a place of \u201cinclusive government\u201d, Syria looks more likely to be approaching a condition of volatility and chaos, not a \u201cfragile\u201d democracy with \u201cfreedom of opinion, expression, information, publication and press\u201d, as claimed in <a href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2025\/03\/14\/world\/europe\/syria-constitution-new-government.html\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">the text of the interim constitutional document<\/span><\/a>. Quoting an acquaintance living in Maaloula, a Christian town Northeast of Damascus, Patrick Cockburn relates how multiple groups have been plunged into trepidation: \u201cThe Christians are frightened, the Alawites are frightened, even the secular Sunnis are frightened\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n<p>That fear relates not only to who is supposedly in charge in Damascus, but to the extent of their control, if any, over the forces made up of jihadis from around the world who are now the primary wielders of military power across most of the core of the country. The Kurdish Syrian Democratic Council, meanwhile, has actually been outspoken in its criticism of the Islamist-shaded constitution, saying it has \u201creproduced authoritarianism\u201d.<\/p>\n<p>Every single premise of Von Der Leyen\u2019s statement as quoted above is questionable.<\/p>\n<p>Its conclusions are absurd.<\/p>\n<p>Why do we start by picking out the ancient Christian redoubt of Maaloula? This frame of reference helps to show how far back in time the communities of modern-day \u201cSyria\u201d go, as well as Cockburn\u2019s in-person familiarity with their inheritors\u2019 attempts to survive in the horrible present. Writing <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><a style=\"color: #0000ff;\" href=\"https:\/\/www.independent.co.uk\/news\/world\/middle-east\/persecution-of-the-christians-syrian-minority-fear-the-end-of-fighting-more-than-war-itself-8422977.html\">back in 2012<\/a><\/span>,\u00a0 Cockburn concluded a piece for the Independent by observing that \u201cthe sufferings of the Christians of Syria are no worse than those of the Muslims, but they feel that whatever the outcome of the Civil War, their future will most likely be worse than their past.\u201d\u00a0 The omens, he felt were not good. He was right.<\/p>\n<p>In Syria, they seldom are. This Post-Ottoman, Post-French mandate state goes back to 1945 in its current form. Will it even continue to exist in another few years? The massacres now taking place in Latakia, Cockburn would write a few days after our conversation, are being \u201cignored\u201d, but \u201cmay shape the Middle East\u201d. (<span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><a style=\"color: #0000ff;\" href=\"https:\/\/inews.co.uk\/opinion\/the-mass-killings-in-syria-are-being-ignored-but-may-shape-the-middle-east-3584449\">iPaper, March 15<\/a><\/span>)<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\">\n<p dir=\"ltr\" lang=\"en\">The former <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/hashtag\/Irish?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#Irish<\/a> ambassador to Russia Philip McDonagh joins the podcast to discuss prospects for peace in Eastern Europe &amp; recalls an interesting encounter with Mikhail <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/hashtag\/Gorbachev?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#Gorbachev<\/a>.<a href=\"https:\/\/t.co\/bzRouHBFou\">https:\/\/t.co\/bzRouHBFou<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/hashtag\/IrishNeutrality?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#IrishNeutrality<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/hashtag\/RussiaUkraineWar?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#RussiaUkraineWar<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/hashtag\/UkraineRussiaWar?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#UkraineRussiaWar<\/a><\/p>\n<p>\u2014 CassandraVoices (@VoicesCassandra) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/VoicesCassandra\/status\/1897216813945249884?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">March 5, 2025<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>As the second part of the conversation in this episode outlines, European leaders and their friends are prone to magical thinking in the matter of their proximate crises as well as distant. In recent coverage on Ukraine for the iPaper, Cockburn has argued that \u201cWestern governments, media and PR firms\u201d have crafted a depiction of the conflict as a replay of WW2. In this vision, \u201ccompromise was ruled out as practical policy, meaning that the war could only end with a Ukrainian victory and Russian capitulation \u2013 though nobody seriously believed this was going to happen since\u2026 the failed Ukrainian counter-offensive in the summer of 2023.\u201d In an echo of that argument, Cockburn\u2019s contemporary Peter Hitchens stated, in an interview in <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><a style=\"color: #0000ff;\" href=\"https:\/\/standard.sk\/899671\/peter-hitchens-i-dont-think-zelensky-would-survive-if-he-tried-to-make-peace\">Slovakia\u2019s Standard magazine<\/a><\/span>:<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThe whole of the Western world has been told things about Ukraine which make it very difficult for a compromised peace.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>On grave matters of peace and war, European leaders are failing to adopt a realistic vision, concludes Cockburn.<\/p>\n<p>This is something of an understatement.<\/p>\n<p>With Europeans apparently determined to tool up for armies that don\u2019t exist (and would be unlikely to have much fighting morale even if they did) and prone to praising the emergence of \u201cprogressive\u201d states that have all the long-term prospects of a snowman in the Sinai, we are looking at a new era of wishful, read delusional thinking.<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\">\n<p dir=\"ltr\" lang=\"en\">The first Cassandra Voices Podcast, hosted by Luke Sheahan, features a long form interview with the veteran journalist Patrick Cockburn. Please Subscribe!<a href=\"https:\/\/t.co\/mEQSm0fI0k\">https:\/\/t.co\/mEQSm0fI0k<\/a><\/p>\n<p>\u2014 CassandraVoices (@VoicesCassandra) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/VoicesCassandra\/status\/1752647195361231239?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">January 31, 2024<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>A final note:<\/p>\n<p>This conversation with Patrick Cockburn is his second with Cassandra Voices. One year ago, Patrick was our very first guest. Back then we mostly spoke about his father Claud, the subject of a new <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><a style=\"color: #0000ff;\" href=\"https:\/\/www.penguinrandomhouse.com\/books\/761180\/believe-nothing-until-it-is-officially-denied-by-patrick-cockburn\/\">biography<\/a><\/span> by his Cork-born son. This time, we jump to more familiar terrain: the battlefields of the present day, Ukraine, Syria, and Gaza. Cockburn once praised his late friend Robert Fisk as a \u201chistorian of the present\u201d. Like Fisk, Cockburn began in Ireland, then spent decades doing mostly Middle-east-based journalism, mostly in person. This meant cultivating friendships, survival skills and a sense of discernment for the historical roots of ongoing events. More sedentary now than, say, the start of the Syrian Civil War 14 years ago, or the invasion of Iraq in 2003 (both of which he covered while on the ground), he is better placed than most to share useful perspectives on far-off theaters of fighting. We\u2019re honored to have him back.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Are the Eurocrats and their allies most delusional about the topics they profess to find most urgent? Or are they just setting out to delude the rest of us? This was Ursula Von Der Leyen speaking at the 9th Brussels Conference on Syria, on Saint Patrick\u2019s Day last: The agreement between the central authorities and [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":17548,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[4,13],"tags":[320,501,1442,1446,1778,2112,5717,5720,7005,7008,7011,7012,7014,7298,8821,9672],"class_list":["post-17536","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-current-affairs","category-podcast","tag-affairs","tag-and","tag-cassandra-voices-patrick-cockburn","tag-cassandra-voices-podcast","tag-cockburn","tag-current","tag-luke-sheehan","tag-luke-sheehan-journalist","tag-patrick","tag-patrick-cockburn","tag-patrick-cockburn-journalist","tag-patrick-cockburn-syria","tag-patrick-cockburn-ukraine","tag-podcast","tag-syria","tag-ukraine"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/casswp.eutonom.eu\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/17536","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/casswp.eutonom.eu\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/casswp.eutonom.eu\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/casswp.eutonom.eu\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/casswp.eutonom.eu\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=17536"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/casswp.eutonom.eu\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/17536\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/casswp.eutonom.eu\/index.php\/wp-json\/"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/casswp.eutonom.eu\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=17536"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/casswp.eutonom.eu\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=17536"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/casswp.eutonom.eu\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=17536"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}